Kent Squash & Racketball
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PAR 11
This letter has been sent to all division 1 captains today:-
The committee has noticed that several matches have been played to PAR 11 scoriing.
This has caused concern that the Priory league is being run by teams doing what they want.
The committee would be more than happy to resign and get on with their lives.
The committee operates by enforcing rules as agreed at the AGM .
PAR 11 was rejected at the last AGM . To make changes to the rules requires an AGM or somebody to call for an EGM. At the recent Kent AGM it was recommended that the 2 Kent leagues should trial PAR 11 next summer.
After reviewing the situation and considering the options taking into account the views expressed by surveys that seem to have been held (even though they were not unanimous) we feel we have arrived at a good compromise.
We have agreed that teams can play PAR 11 if both captains agree before the match starts.
In which case each individual game must be completed using the same agreed scoring system.
Should the captains disagree then the HANDS OUT /HANDS IN to 9 should be used.
Hopefully this issue can be resolved at the next AGM if enough people attend to vote.
The committee has noticed that several matches have been played to PAR 11 scoriing.
This has caused concern that the Priory league is being run by teams doing what they want.
The committee would be more than happy to resign and get on with their lives.
The committee operates by enforcing rules as agreed at the AGM .
PAR 11 was rejected at the last AGM . To make changes to the rules requires an AGM or somebody to call for an EGM. At the recent Kent AGM it was recommended that the 2 Kent leagues should trial PAR 11 next summer.
After reviewing the situation and considering the options taking into account the views expressed by surveys that seem to have been held (even though they were not unanimous) we feel we have arrived at a good compromise.
We have agreed that teams can play PAR 11 if both captains agree before the match starts.
In which case each individual game must be completed using the same agreed scoring system.
Should the captains disagree then the HANDS OUT /HANDS IN to 9 should be used.
Hopefully this issue can be resolved at the next AGM if enough people attend to vote.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jolyon Head on -
Very sensible solution. Best of both worlds I feel. HIHO trumps PAR unless both captains want PAR. We'll get some variety and hopefully this will add to the enjoyment of the game.
Thanks committee, great work.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Lennox on -
Yup have to say that's a good compromise Can't see PL agreeing to PAR this season, where would I be without my 1 hr 30 matches?
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Permalink Reply by Ken Cotton on -
I think the priory committee do an excellent job trying to cope with all the different points of view. If any of you and the club from SE London in particular have ever tried running a competition for other people you might understand the amount of time and effort involved. I suggest that the club and people involved in trying to change PAR to 11 to abide by the rules for this season. If they want to change canvas opinion and try to alter the rules at the next AGM. I have been to several AGM's in recent years and I cannot honestly remember seeing 1 person from Dulwich so I find it a bit galling that they are trying to alter our league system that has been running for at least 40 years. If they want to play PAR they should go and play in Surrey 1 which I believe uses this system but unfortunately for them without their paid players they would struggle to compete in priory 2. Once again well done priory committee please try and keep our leagues at normal scoring. The reason we need to keep our scoring because it maintains the standard of squash and will prevent our leagues dropping into mediocrity.
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Permalink Reply by John Creek on -
Sorry, Ken. But I must have been asleep. Which AGMs were you at? And which rule is it you are talking about? Rule 9, maybe?
Ken Cotton said:I suggest that the club and people involved in trying to change PAR to 11 to abide by the rules for this season. I have been to several AGM's in recent years Once again well done priory committee please try and keep our leagues at normal scoring. The reason we need to keep our scoring because it maintains the standard of squash and will prevent our leagues dropping into mediocrity.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Lennox on
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Ken, to be fair Dulwich have been well represented at AGM's by Tim Garner - who has been very upfront about PAR. I think you might be being a little harsh saying it's 'galling'. Chill out, these guys are doing great stuff in Kent Squash!!! Lot's of teams, enthusiasm and the current champs of Priory let's not forget. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Ken Cotton on
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I have been to 3 AGM's in the last 4 years and have never seen Tim Garner there. As far as what Dulwich are doing for Kent Priory, they are only in it because they don't want to do the miles needed to play in the Surrey cup. They are not even within the boundaries recognised. The normal boundary has always been Crystal Palace. With their access to professional and semi professional players the result of any match that they choose to play these people in never in any doubt, if you find this situation acceptable you are entitled to your point of view of which I respect as you know. I too have a point of view which is the situation is not acceptable. No matter how much work the coaches and trainers do in Kent they cannot complete with the situation as it is. As you know from our past of over 20 years I don’t do anything without having a chance of winning. A comprise situation to be discussed at the AGM would be each club has 1 known paid player then the playing field might be more even and allow us to complete.
The rules can only be altered and changed at the AGM. As is the case with the PAR.
p.s. It will give me great pleasure to see Bexley, PL, BCC or Rodermersham win Priory 1 because they are Kent clubs
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Permalink Reply by Tim Garner on -
The above sounds like a good plan. HiHo should defintely take precedence.
I completelty understand everyone has their own point of view, some of which I may agree with and some of which i may not. just want to clear a couple of things up:
- last year dulwich had approx 6 representatives (me being one of them) at the Priory AGM, this year it just fell on a bad day for people from the club and ith no car getting there was problematic for me.
- i love playing for dulwich and it has always been important that the team retains the club feel, thats ultimately why i play squash (unfortunately one of the teams lost sight of that last year and everyone knows what happened).
- i have been open that i think PAR 11 works for league squash, but have equally left it to others to decide if thats what they want to try out and there are some who are very against it and some prepared to give it a go,
- the only reason i was the one who posted survey results, was because someone else on the forum had said no-one from div.1 had said what they thought so thought i would find out
- i know how much work goes into running leagues, etc. and want to re-iterate the thanks to the guys involved.
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Permalink Reply by Ken Cotton on
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Hi Tim,
We have known each other for at least 25 years mainly through your junior days playing for your adopted county Sussex always a good laugh and enjoyable conversation.
What I want to know is why you think PAR scoring is good for Priory squash leagues. Bearing in mind , you are talking to one of the simple cave dwellers from the other side of the hill. I hope you don’t tell me about Television, Olympics, or what the English SRA think is best for us as you and I both know the track record over the last 10-15 years.
When I have read your reasons I will attempt to explain to you why I think it is not the way to go for priory squash. I will even furnish you with facts and figures and some accounts of what happens when PAR is introduced. I am going to the British on 10th and 11th perhaps we could have a nice discussion there over a beer.
Ken
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Permalink Reply by Tom Woods on -
The way I see it, the changes are made to help bring the game a little bit more up to date. They are also there to speed up some of the longer matches that can go on for almost 2 hours. Team matches either OK or Priory can and do take all night and with long journeys to and from the clubs, speeding up the evening is not a bad idea.
We played Bexley last week and won 3:2 but didn't sit down to eat until 11pm, by the time I got in it was 12:30, I left at 6:30 that evening to make sure we were all there on time. PAR would speed this up but still over the course of the season level out. After all we would all be playing the same rules so you can't claim it's an advantage to anyone.
Ken Cotton said:Hi Tim,
We have known each other for at least 25 years mainly through your junior days playing for your adopted county Sussex always a good laugh and enjoyable conversation.
What I want to know is why you think PAR scoring is good for Priory squash leagues. Bearing in mind , you are talking to one of the simple cave dwellers from the other side of the hill. I hope you don’t tell me about Television, Olympics, or what the English SRA think is best for us as you and I both know the track record over the last 10-15 years.
When I have read your reasons I will attempt to explain to you why I think it is not the way to go for priory squash. I will even furnish you with facts and figures and some accounts of what happens when PAR is introduced. I am going to the British on 10th and 11th perhaps we could have a nice discussion there over a beer.
Ken
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Permalink Reply by Ken Cotton on
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Hi Tom
I am Interested to know if your brother and sister are still hitting balls. To reply to your blog, your first sentence about fetching the game up to date and speed, as always the matches are always open for debate as to how people see squash. All the thousands of matches I have been involved in only 1 lasted 2 hours or more. That match lasted 2 hours 40 minutes between Ahmed Farzy and John Russell. Farzy won 10-8 in the 5th and that is a long match, I have it on DVD if you want to watch it. I am not saying matches should last that long but I doubt if you have seen a match last 2 hours or even close. When people are trying to put a case one side or the other it has to have some degree of realism. PL 2 played Bexley this year 4 strings only match finished at 9.50 because of Bexley’s catering arrangements we too sat down at 11pm. I am looking at your scores, 3 matches were won 3-0, 2 were 3-2 and in one of them the 4th and 5th game was 0-9 0-9. There must have been some really long rallies or did your match finish early and you had to wait for your meal. You couldn’t get nearer to the A2 at Bexley squash club, max. Time 40 mins from there to Rodersham. So what I am saying is that it is not the scoring system that is at fault but the start times and eating times for the home club. Without going into long debate you and your club choose to play inner Kent for the standard of the squash so your travelling time and home time is going t be considerably longer. Surely you are not putting a case for changing the scoring on the basis of where you live. It is your decision to play and you are very welcome but please don’t try to change the system n such flimsy grounds.
Inner Kent squash has always been on a Tuesday night no matter how long it takes, it has been that way for 40 years of more and as far as I am concern I hope it stays for the next 40 years or more.
Ken
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Permalink Reply by ian ross griffin on
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Re : Dulwich
All we are doing at Dulwich is trying to promote the wonderful sport of Squash.
Part of the World Rules of Squash in respect to scoring has changed and Dulwich are keen to apply the rules of Squash where possible, however we are not in anyway dictating or forcing this issue,
If Kent overall, vote to never use Par then so be it, that is the whole point of the voting system.
Tim Garner has been a fabulous and committed club member for Dulwich, he often gives free coaching and attends all Team social functions and has become an integral club member who works (unpaid) doing many things for the club other than play squash.
Players of his ability playing in Kent is surely fantastic,
As to Dulwich's position in Kent all we are trying to do is have a great club, attaract more members, play competitive team sqaush, make sure all opposition teams are treated well and have a good dinner after team matches.
No body is tryng to alter any league system. All we are doing is saying that the forum and national vote on Par scoring was in October 2008. No one at Dulwich pushed for the system as it happens however we at Dulwich think it sensible to at least talk about the Par scoring system and in some instances try it out. Re Semi professional players and the Kent Leagues as far as I can see ( in my limited time playing squash in Kent - 6 yrs) the big-hitters of Park Langley, Bexley and Biggin Hill in their pomp and others have had access to Semi-pro players long before Tim Garner was playing for Dulwich.
Dulwich never complained or even mentioned it because it was and still is an absolute pleasure to see quality squash players playing at Dulwich and against Dulwich players.
I am a bit bemused as to certain comments about Dulwich's approach that I have read on this forum.
Thanks to Mark Lennox for putting the record straight,
Ken - we would love it if would like to come to Dulwich and watch one of the 1st team matches.
The beers would be on me,
Ian Ross Griffin - Club Captain - Dulwich Squash Club.
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Permalink Reply by John Creek on
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Ken - for as long as I can remember, our league is called Kent (North West) Priory. No lines are drawn apart from 'south of the River Thames and into Kent as far as a line drawn between Chatham and Tunbridge Wells.' The fact that these boundaries have been eased can only be good for the league standard, surely? And as far as I know, Tuesdays have always been the norm in Priory - but not the absolute rule. Perhaps those Priory AGMs were the ones you attended - but forgot to sign the register?
My youthful grey cells also remember wooden rackets; cold courts; two serves; white kit; cat gut strings and single dot balls. I don't remember being asked whether I wanted to change the rules to allow for variations in these. That must explain all those chips on my shoulder I have been carrying all these years;)
Ken Cotton said:Hi Tom
Inner Kent squash has always been on a Tuesday night no matter how long it takes, it has been that way for 40 years of more and as far as I am concern I hope it stays for the next 40 years or more.
Ken
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