Kent Squash & Racketball
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PAR scoring = less squash
I've read the other topics ion this and I've accepted that we're 'giving it a go' for the summer season. After all, what harm can it do to try?
Well I've just come back from a game that could have lasted an hour but in fact lasted 26 minutes. I can honestly say (with no disrespect to my opponent) that I considered dropping a game so we could get a bit more time on court. How does that sound, right or wrong?
This game of squash is my one match per week and one that I’m prepared to travel to - BUT if my time on court is significantly reduced I'm going to veto any moves to continue PAR and will campaign for others to do so too.
I know this might seem like old news but now that we've tried it (albeit for two weeks) I challenge anyone to come forward and give a sensible reason why you want to shorten down your precious time on court? If you're a little overweight and always found it a struggle to last the distance then sure I can take that. But why were people like Mark Steedon, Matt Badger and others wanting to go for this when I know first hand that they enjoy a good hard match as much as the next.
There are many silent viewers of this forum but if you agree or disagree, please speak up because your opinion counts
I'll wrap up by saying PAR is great for pros and televised sport but not for us guys in Div 1, we're not pros (exclude about 4 players from a total of circa 50).
Thoughts?
Views: 33
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jolyon Head on -
Have to say I'm fairly indifferent between PAR and HiHo. In my limited experience of playing PAR I haven't noticed a huge deal of difference in match times. We played Dulwich last night, only had four players, started promptly and didn't finish until 10 o'clock. Would have been close to an 11 o'clock finish with 5 players. All the matches were long and no one was complaining about lack of match time.
I'm quite glad it has been introduced for the summer so we can get some experience of it. If it seems that the overall people find it a negative move (and they certainly seem to be the most vocal at the moment) then I see no reason why HiHo shouldn't be re-introduced.
Good to see the topics on the forum are progressing :-)
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Permalink Reply by Mark Lennox on -
Hey Jolyon, long time no speak..
I should add that; I know it's the same old topic and there are similar posts running but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't lost in an old discussion. Besides this post is discussing the scoring as we progress on through the season and I'm interested to hear if anyone feels short-changed?
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Permalink Reply by Joe Magor on -
Hey Guys,
I think that PAR to 11 should perhaps be used in the Summer League and English to 9 in the Winter League.
Why?
Well, in the summer when the courts get a lot hotter and it gets a lot harder to put the ball away you will naturally have a lot longer rallies anyway (well in Divsion 1 anyway) so you'd probably not want to be on a hot court for over an hour like you do in Hi-Ho scoring on a hot court (Last summer, I had a 95 minute match against Martin Clark and a 105 minute match against Jonny Powell because of Hi-Ho scoring on a hot court in addition to several other matches that were in excess of an hour).
I think PAR to 11 is more rewarding on a hot court as you can have a massively long rally and be rewarded with a point at the end of it or hit a nice winner on a court thats difficult to hit a winner on and be rewarded for a point.
Not too long ago I had a match against Tom Woods on a very hot fitness first court and it stayed 0-0 until the 12th point of the first game!!
If you put in a lot of effort in your movement and retrieving then you'll know its not very pleasant trying to grind it out on a very hot court just to win the serve back!!
I've played in several graded tournaments over the last couple of summers and there have been matches using PAR 11 where I've come off absoutely ruined after an hour on court or more because of the length of the rallies on the hot courts and the fact that its harder to go for winners! To be honest if they were Hi-Ho scoring I might have either not played or entered a lower grade ;-)
Whilst its only been two weeks, the temeprature hasn't got to what it does in summer usually, so I say give it several more weeks, wait for the temperature to creep up and see what difference that makes!
Also, I think for the likes of budding pros such as james evans,. josh masters etc.. and new PSA pros Neil Baker and Steve London it would help them if they are playing team matches using the same scoring as they would in tournaments albeit they only make up a minority of the league but I suppose for the summer only is better than nothing!
Then once its back to a nicer temperature on court where you can actually put the ball away and your grip doesn't get soacked after 25 mins then back to Hi-Ho! That's my thoughts anway!
Here's to a hot summer!
Thanks,
Joe
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Permalink Reply by Phill Crane on -
164 members, a handfull bothering to comment - although I'm in favour the vast majority apparently couldn't care less and are just getting on with it.
Maybe team captains should do a weekly survey and ask the players whether they enjoyed their match or not? The result could then be posted within the match report.
It's certainly time it was given a trial and it's not all about the players higher up the order. At our match the other evening against BCC the longest match on court was the 5th string which lasted maybe 45/ 50 mins for 4 games (equivalent 1st or 2nd string Div 2 or 3 Outer Kent and 1st or 2nd string Div 3 or 4 Priory).
If players are well matched you'll get long games whichever scoring system you use.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Lennox on
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I know there are a lot of silent forum viewers and hopefully we'll spark them into commenting, even if it's 1 liner!
I do take Joe's point about the summer naturally making any game of squash longer which is a compensation for the inevitably shorter games due to the PAR scoring. I still would want the longer games in the summer in any case because, well, I like a decent length game of squash. But maybe that's just me?
Taking up Phil's point about evenly matched players having a longer game, well yes that's true although it's still not as long as it would be if it were HiHo scoring. I guess the question we should be asking is do we want shorter games of squash?
Lastly, I don't buy all this 'change your game' 'play defensively' rubbish to make it last longer. Surely the game of squash should be exciting to watch and not be encouraging players to drill ball after ball down the wall because they are scared of making a mistake. If you don’t want HiHo then play PAR to 15 - problem solved. 11 is too short for us but ideal for the pros as we know..
Phill Crane said:164 members, a handfull bothering to comment - although I'm in favour the vast majority apparently couldn't care less and are just getting on with it.
Maybe team captains should do a weekly survey and ask the players whether they enjoyed their match or not? The result could then be posted within the match report.
It's certainly time it was given a trial and it's not all about the players higher up the order. At our match the other evening against BCC the longest match on court was the 5th string which lasted maybe 45/ 50 mins for 4 games (equivalent 1st or 2nd string Div 2 or 3 Outer Kent and 1st or 2nd string Div 3 or 4 Priory).
If players are well matched you'll get long games whichever you use.
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Permalink Reply by Clive London on -
I thought the whole idea of introducing PAR 11 scoring for the pros was to make the game more attacking not less! Back in the day, pro matches used to be up and down for hour on end. Club level squash never really gave the opportunity for that since at that level not every shot is (a) glued to the wall and (b) returned every time wherever it goes.
In addition they have the 17" tin. Maybe the next move is to lower the tin then!?
P.S. Phill - Nice Bono impersonation in the photo. Perhaps you should stand in at Glastonbury
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Permalink Reply by Tom Woods on -
After a couple of matches with the PAR 11, I don't think it is improving matches either and surely thats the only reason to change so that we all enjoy it even more.
I agree that two closely matched players will be on longer, but when I look at the Hi Ho score of this weeks match, where I could have carried on playing for another half hour at least, (and as you all know I am not the fittest player) in which I lost the fifth 11-8 . It turns out I was only 5-2 behind on Hi Ho.
I do feel a little cheated to be honest, not only have I not played what I would class as a full game, I have also lost the match on a rally where I served.
I do think that it's good there are a few comments on the forum again though, opinions are important or it would be a pretty boring place.
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Permalink Reply by Phill Crane on
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Clive, I too remember the 'Old Days' though obviously not quite as far back as you.
But yes, I like PAR because it allows you to attack and if successful reap the rewards.
You don't have to defend and be attritional when your opponent is serving, you can think of winning the point instead of not losing it.
It allows you to go for it, as Tom does whether playing PAR or HIHO - ( I've never seen him try and extend a rally if he can end it with one shot - lol).
And yes, please give me a lower tin!
Everyone should sit back, relax and enjoy it for what it is - a game and hopefully some fun. If there are major problems/ concerns then I'm sure that everyone will make sure that the Priory Committee is well aware.
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Permalink Reply by Simon Crowther on -
I think PAR 15 is the way forward - summer and winter, it works for all levels of league players, has a slant towards more exciting games and imposes a bit of a limit on match times. It also doesn't favour shotmakers so much, so is fairer for those who like a bit of attrition.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Magor on
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I like PAR 15 as it makes it longer and still rewards you for winners and punishes you for being lazy and trying to go for a winner off the serve!
Pro's played with it for years and only shortened it to 11 as their rallies lasted a lot longer than ours do! so maybe 15 might be the best of both worlds where it makes the game longer and it still includes the element of PAR.
The old super league used it and everyone played to it, even park langley, new eltham and biggin hill, with no complaints!? or were there? if so I don't recall hearing about them!
good shout simon, free beer for you!
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Permalink Reply by Clive London on
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I used to run that PL Super League team and I hated PAR back then too. In those days there were quite a lot of pros playing so maybe that's why the scoring system was used. James Robbins would be no.3 for D.Lloyd Sidcup (and he was still national top 30 then). PAR 15 is the lesser of the two PAR evils in my view, but as far as I'm concerned it's Snow White mode all the way - Hi-Ho Hi-Ho etc
Joe Magor said:I like PAR 15 as it makes it longer and still rewards you for winners and punishes you for being lazy and trying to go for a winner off the serve!
Pro's played with it for years and only shortened it to 11 as their rallies lasted a lot longer than ours do! so maybe 15 might be the best of both worlds where it makes the game longer and it still includes the element of PAR.
The old super league used it and everyone played to it, even park langley, new eltham and biggin hill, with no complaints!? or were there? if so I don't recall hearing about them!
good shout simon, free beer for you!
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Permalink Reply by Neil Fisher on -
Haven't posted on here before but think that as many different views as possible can only be a good thing. Haven't played as much, and certainly not to as high a standard as anyone else posting on here (div 3/4 priory mainly), but do think that it would be good to get a few views from lower down in the leagues.
Haven't played much PAR (only in Handicaps) but have watched my son in junior tournaments a fair amount and also some adult gradeds, and agree that it does, inevitably, shorten the game time.
I like the competitive nature of match squash but don't really mind whether I lurch (after a quick match) or crawl off court depending on the length of the match, as long as it is competitve and preferably close.
With the times that people seem to turn up for matches nowadays, they often don't finish until after 10 and this is far more likely to see me packing in team squash than getting 10 minutes less court time, since I enjoy the social side as much as the squash nowadays (most who know me would argue more!).
My own personal preference would be for PAR 15, rather than PAR 11 or HiHo, as it seems to offer the best of both worlds, longer games than PAR 11 and earlier overall finishes. Shame the trial only emcompasses Div 1 in my opinion, especially in summer as others have stated, but hopefully the trial will encourage debate throughout the leagues.
Think, generally, that people playing further down in the leagues, are of the opinion that this won't affect them or that their arguments for change will not be listened to, however this will always be the case if no-one knows what they think, because they don't feel they should post!
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